The Honest Take

THT LIVE — SHAHAR HOROVITZ — OCT 7 2026 — TRANSCRIPT
Source: YouTube recording (59:06). Machine transcript, lightly corrected. [?] = uncertain.

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[00:00:42] BEN: This is The Honest Take, the show that goes past the headlines to find out what's actually true about Israel and about the people covering it. I'm Ben Chertoff, and today we are going live. It is October 7th, and my guest today is Shahar Horovitz, who survived the Nova music festival and wrote a book about it. Today we're going to hear what happened to her on October 7th from the first siren to the farm where she hid, and to talk about what it's been like to carry all of that since. But before we get started, if you aren't subscribed yet, please do.

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[00:01:28] BEN: On October 7, 2023, thousands of people were dancing at the festival in the desert near Re'im when the rocket started. By the IDF's own count, 378 people were killed there and in the area around it, and 44 were taken into Gaza. Shahar was 22. She'd just come back from nine months of backpacking in South America, and a lot of the friends she'd made on that trip were at the party with her. That morning, she ran for hours through open fields and ended up hiding under a building on a farm while armed men stood a few feet away. She got home that night. Some of her friends didn't. She has since written Surviving October 7th, published in Hebrew as We Were the Sun. Three years to the day, she's here to tell the story. Shahar, welcome to The Honest Take.

[00:02:24] SHAHAR: Hello, Ben. Welcome. Thank you.

[00:02:27] BEN: So before we get into the book, can you take us back to the night of October 6th? Who did you go to the festival with? What was that party supposed to be?

[00:02:41] SHAHAR: Yeah so I'm gonna take you to the morning of October 6th because I remembered waking up that morning with this weird feeling in my gut that something was wrong and I couldn't put my finger on what it was and the whole day I just felt like this the sinking feeling in my stomach that something bad is about to happen and I didn't know what. And the whole day I just tried to tell myself that it's going to be fine, that I might be excited about the party, that I might be nervous of meeting this guy I met in South America. And I just brushed that feeling off. And I really was excited because we went to the party, 30 people, all of whom were my friends from South America. And we all came to the party together and we were really really excited and we got there in around 12, 12 a.m., 12:30 a.m. And I remembered that I was looking at my friends and I told them this place is amazing like we've been to festivals in South America and Colombia and Brazil and Panama And I remember when I entered the Nova Festival site, it was like getting into a dream because it was so beautiful. And the people were so nice and happy. And the atmosphere was full of pure love that I've never seen anything like that in my life. And it just, it was amazing up until 6:28 in the morning. It was like being in a dream.

[00:04:29] BEN: What did that night mean to your group? I mean, these were friends you had made traveling throughout the world. I mean, what had you expected?

[00:04:40] SHAHAR: Well I for me it was one last weekend before I actually was supposed to start the university on October 8th it was like orientation week um and I was supposed to be like uh starting my degree in computer science and for me it was like one last weekend of pure fun with all of my friends from South America. And we all felt like when you get back home from a trip like this of a few months, then like you want to go back to that feeling of freedom and love and partying. And it was hard to go back home after such a long trip. And for all of us, I think it was like one chance to experience that again, to be all of us together, partying, having fun, laughing with each other. So everyone was just so, so happy to be there. And we had no idea what was going on.

[00:05:43] BEN: When did you realize that something was wrong?

[00:05:49] SHAHAR: So at 6:29, the music stopped and the DJ said on the microphone that there is red alert, there were rockets and we had to lay on the ground with our hands on our heads. And we looked at each other and we just laughed because it was crazy to think that we're in a party in the southern part of Israel and there are rockets right now and it was so out of place. So at first we didn't really think anything about it. We said, okay, two, five, ten minutes and then we'll go back dancing. And then a minute or two passes and the DJ says on the microphone you need to evacuate this place right now and we were really sad about that but we said okay we'll just grab our stuff and get into the car and drive home and um we didn't know like for us it was just it's it's really bad to say or sad to say but rockets in this this part of Israel is not um something unusual unfortunately so we just thought okay we just um let's just get into a car everything is gonna be fine and it took us um almost an hour and a half until we managed to leave the parking lot from the party into the road to 232 route and when we got to the road it was already packed with people packed with cars there was a huge traffic jam and we couldn't move left or right and then there was another red alert so we left the car and we sat on the side of the road with our hands on our heads and at 7:30 something like that um we started to hear the first gunshots and that's when we looked at each other and we realized it's bigger than we thought we still didn't know how big but we knew it's not ordinary rockets from Gaza

[00:07:58] BEN: Yeah I mean the there's a moment in the book where you describe the car itself that you were in getting shot I mean, like, when did you realize that this was such a like a real present mortal danger.

[00:08:13] SHAHAR: Yeah. So I think that moment when we were sitting on the side of the road and my friend, she she she's looking at her car and she's like, oh, someone shot my car. And we were and I always thought she's imagining things. And then I really saw the bullet, you know, piercing through the front door of the car. And I was like, oh, wow. OK. So we stood up and then it was like you know the gunshots coming from everywhere and I think the first moment that I realized no one here knows what to do and no one here knows what's what's going to happen is when I went there was a police officer over there I went to her and I asked her what to do and she looked at me and she told me you have to run I can't help you and I think that was the first time I realized that we are really here on our own and um it was really really scary

[00:09:11] BEN: I mean what goes through your head when you I mean had you ever encountered I mean you served so like have you ever encountered like bullets flying at you at at a car like that I mean, what goes through your head? It must have been terrifying.

[00:09:30] SHAHAR: Yeah, so I was not in anything related to being in a combat unit. I was serving in Tel Aviv, going every day. I was at home every day, so my military service was important, but nothing like being in a combat unit. So it was my first time of hearing gunshots outside of TV. And it was I remember the feeling of being completely shocked and completely you know I didn't understand what was going on around me and in those moments when when this police officer told me that she can't help us then I looked at my friends and I said okay we gotta run like started hearing the gunshots coming and it didn't stop and I realized that it's going be closer every second. So we have to run away. And that's what we did.

[00:10:27] BEN: Yeah, into the fields right next to the road, right into the fields of the Gaza envelope. You describe running for hours through those fields. I mean, listen, I'm a runner. I've done long races. And I know, like, in the middle of it, you're hoping for the finish line, because you know, you can get your glass of water and your banana and all the pain is going to end. I can't imagine what that is like running in the situation you were running and not knowing, like not having that. What's going through your head?

[00:11:01] SHAHAR: Yeah. So I at first before 7:30, I didn't even talk to my parents. In our place in Israel, there were no rockets. They didn't wake up from the red alert at 6:30 in the morning. So for them, it was just another Saturday morning. And at first, before I knew, before the gunshots, I didn't even want to wake them up. And I said, okay, well, when we'll get to the center of Israel, then I'll just call them and tell them I'm on my way home. And when I heard the gunshots, then I called my dad and I called my mom and my brother. And no one answered because it was Saturday morning and they didn't have the phone on. And when my dad called me back it was 30 minutes after at 8 and I was in the middle of my run with gunshots and bullets in the air and I was screaming at him on the phone dad they're shooting at us

[00:12:03] BEN: This is while you're running

[00:12:04] SHAHAR: Yeah while I'm running I didn't have anything on me I didn't have a bag I only had my phone and I didn't even have a pocket so I just put it in my pants and I ran with it. And then he called me in the middle of this insane mess. And I'm screaming at him on the phone that they're shooting at us. And he didn't know what, you know, what I'm talking about. Like for him, it was just another Saturday morning. What is she talking about?

[00:12:37] BEN: You got separated from your best friend in the fields how did you keep going on your own I mean like what's what's the thought process like there

[00:12:48] SHAHAR: Yeah so um at first we were we were running together me and um Danny [from the book?] and um and we were running and at some point Danny and Ben um we were running and very short while after we started running Danny we lost her and she probably just ran somewhere else because it was really chaotic it was only Ben and me and we ran together for about 30 minutes and all the while he's screaming at me not to look back because people were falling from the bullets from the gunshots and he didn't want me to see that um so we ran together and while we ran you know people are running everywhere there is chaos everywhere so at first it was like thousands of people running together and then hundreds and then tens and then we got to a point where it was just me and I'm looking around and I don't see him anymore so at like 8 30 in the morning I find myself all alone in those fields and I don't know where my friends are Ben is gone Danny's gone and I'm all alone um and I have like two seconds to decide what I'm gonna do and I realized that I can either start looking for him right now and Ben, where are you? Like, start to look for him or I have or like run away and truly believe, you know, choose to believe that he's OK and that he's going to make it out of this place. And that's what I did. Like I told myself that Ben is going to be fine. He's going to find his way and he's going to get home. And so is Danny. But I have to go and I have to save myself right now and I continue to run.

[00:14:49] BEN: You met three other guys who were in the field, right? I mean, like, what did they do for you? How did they help?

[00:15:00] SHAHAR: Well, at first, I didn't have anyone and I started to run alone after I lost Ben. And then I saw them under a tree, like catching their breaths. And it was really like a biblical scene. I ran to them, I sat next to them. And the first thing I asked them was, where is Ben? And they looked at me like I was this alien coming from another planet. They didn't know who I was. They didn't know who Ben was and didn't understand what I want from them. And then I started to explain that my name is Shahar and that I lost my friends and I'm running from the party and I don't know what to do. And then one of them just put his hand on my shoulder and looked at me in the eyes and he told me, Shahar, you are with us now and we're all going to be fine. And I really had no reason, you know, to believe him. But just this sense of there is someone here with me in that situation and that I'm not alone, it made me feel better. We might, you know, get through this day together.

[00:16:06] BEN: You called the police from hiding, right? What was that? I mean, because I imagine, you know, in any other situation, you'd think these are the people who are going to save me.

[00:16:16] SHAHAR: Yeah. So after about two hours of running with the three guys that I met, we got to a point where there were greenhouses. And it was not, you know, in the open so we said okay let's get into the greenhouse we were running for a few hours by that point and we said okay let's just get into that greenhouse and think what we're gonna do next um and then when I was in the greenhouse I told myself okay let's do something you know productive um I tried to call the police and it took them a while um they answered and then I told them that we're in the fields and there are terrorists running after us and shooting at us and rockets falling from the sky and that we need someone to evacuate us from here. And she told me, we know, we know that something is wrong. You need to hide and someone will get to you. And when I asked her when she told me, I don't know, and hung up.

[00:17:22] BEN: Wow.

[00:17:23] SHAHAR: Yeah.

[00:17:25] BEN: What does that feel like to know that you're completely on your own?

[00:17:30] SHAHAR: It was really hard. There was a point in that greenhouse because it was the first moment after like three hours since that morning, since everything happened that I had a few minutes to sit on the ground and think and really process what happened in those three hours. And um I I couldn't believe I couldn't believe that my army you know the one that I saved served in and now my brother serves and I couldn't believe it's they're not here like they should be here and um and the police and the air force and they should be here and saving us and um there was a point there that I just sat on the ground with my hands on my head and I was just telling myself it can't be, it can't be there's no way it's happening and it was like um I couldn't shake it off this feeling until one of the guys he he came he came to me he looked at me stood over me um he looked at me from from above and he told me in a very cold calculate calculated voice he told me get a grip like you have to get a grip on yourself it's not the time it's not the time to think where's the army. It's not the time to think about how bad our situation is. This is the time to save ourselves. And he was right. He really, truly was right.

[00:18:56] BEN: You, there's an amazing scene in your book, and obviously this is in real life too, when you get to a farm and there's this moment where it seems like, oh, everything, like maybe this is a moment of safety. And there was a moment of of respite in there. Can you explain the details of who was running that farm, whose farm it was, and what that was like?

[00:19:22] SHAHAR: Yeah, so we got to this greenhouse around 9:30. And after about 30 minutes that we were there, we realized we can't stay there. And at that point, we were six people, me, the three guys, and then two more that we found along the way. And we didn't have water, we didn't have anything and it was really not the right place to stay so we decided to split uh three will go look for water and three will stay and I and me and two other guys we stayed in the greenhouse and about a few minutes after uh we got a call from them and told and they told us that there is a place to hide and then we got to the farm um and this farm felt in those moments like a safe haven and we entered there and there was a Bedouin farmer who welcomed us his name was Yunus and Yunus saw us you know all dirty and messed up with all the from all the running and lying on the ground and he let us get into his office and he told us that there are water and there's air conditioner and

[00:20:31] BEN: Did he know what was going on was he aware

[00:20:34] SHAHAR: I think, well, he knew. He knew that there is terrorists around. He didn't know how much. He didn't really know what was going on in the kibbutzes or in the army bases around the Gaza envelope. But he did know that something is wrong. And he talked to the owner of the farm. The owner of the farm was a Jewish man from one of the kibbutzes around. And he talked to him and he told them that we got there like six people and he don't know what to do with us um and the guy uh from the kibbutz he told them listen there is no way someone is getting to them or to you right now you have to hide them and stay quiet and it might be it might take 24 hours until someone comes to evacuate you.

[00:21:23] BEN: Wow. Um, what was, um, what was going through your head? Um, because you, I mean, you got some food there, right? I mean, you, it was this moment of, uh, calm. Um, what was going through your head while you were kind of waiting there? Um, and what happened?

[00:21:44] SHAHAR: Yeah, so we waited there for a couple of hours. Not too long after we entered the farm, there were two people also coming. They saw us getting into the farm and they followed us inside from the party. Uh one of them came barefoot and he ran all the way barefoot and it was really his his legs were in a really bad shape and once he sat on the chair he couldn't really get up from it and he came with a girl and she was really really shocked she just said and she didn't speak with anyone um but when we got there and we sat around the table and ate cherry tomatoes and watermelon and drank water for me it was like we're fine we're safe I can stay here for a week if I need to like I felt um that the worst part is is behind us and I called my parents my my father was on his way to the Gaza envelope to come and get me out of there and I told him listen we are in a safe place get out of this danger zone stay at friends or something I don't know but just get out of here and we are fine like I really really thought that the hard part was was after us

[00:23:07] BEN: That wasn't the case no and uh terrorists came into the farm and you had to hide in a way that you know reading reading the book back it's very chilling because it it you know Jews hiding under a house and it it has such evocative moments can you describe what happened

[00:23:30] SHAHAR: Yeah so we were in the farm in in Younis's office for a couple of hours. The guys were already you know putting their bags on the floor lying going to sleep because you're really exhausted and at some point around 12 12 30 in the afternoon Younis entered his office with a really pale face and he told us the terrorists are here you have to hide and when he said that we all looked at each other and we realized there's only one entrance to that farm there's no way they're getting in and we're getting out without being seen so we had to think in about a second so what we're going to do and one of the guys his office was like in a trailer. So we could, it was like a few centimeters, a few inches above ground. So he just told us, let's get under that building. And in really few seconds, we were all under that building. And it was very, very scary because after a minute or so that we were there, we started to hear shouting in Arabic and then we started to hear gunshots in the air and we started not not too long after we started to hear really see underneath that from the gap between the concrete and the ground we actually saw their their shoes their their they were walking a mere inches away from us and in those moments you know I looked at the guys that were next to me and and we looked at each other in the eyes. And we couldn't really speak because we couldn't let them hear anything. But we spoke with our eyes. And I remember that one of them looked at me and in his eyes, he told me we did everything we could. We did everything we could. We ran. We hid. We tried to save ourselves. And if it's going to end now, then it's going to end with us knowing that we did everything we possibly could to save ourselves.

[00:25:51] BEN: There there are these creepy moments where um or at least it seems you're you're under there your knee is bleeding and you're watching the ants crawl onto you um I I can't imagine what that would have been like you you talk about remembering your great-grandparents hiding in Czechoslovakia was was that really in your head under there and what was that like

[00:26:20] SHAHAR: Well, I was thinking about the ants because I fell in the run and my knee was bleeding and I saw them, you know, getting into this wound and I really wanted to brush them off, but I couldn't risk, you know, making a sound. So I just let them do their thing. And while lying there, I just closed my eyes and I imagined my parents and my mother. And I really thought about my great grandparents who survived the Holocaust, survived Auschwitz, came back to Israel, had a family, you know, had my grandfather. And he, in turn, had four children that one of them is my dad. And I was thinking of them, you know, of their story. Hiding there and me. And then, you know, this, it was absurd because they came here to Israel to avoid that ever happening again. And here I am, their great granddaughter hiding under a building. So it was crazy to think about it. And in those moments, you know, when I heard the Arabic, the voices in Arabic and they heard, you know, saw their shoes under that building, I just told myself that this day is going to end in one place and it's going to be at home. And I chose to believe that, that this day is going to end at home with my parents, with my mom. And there is no other way I'm going to let this end. And I truly, truly said that to myself and decided to believe that. Because I realized that if I'm going to start to think what if and making sounds, it's going to be over.

[00:28:09] BEN: How did it end under the house? How did the actual that, what happened?

[00:28:17] SHAHAR: Yeah, so we were there for, and the terrorists were in the farm for a couple of minutes. They were searching. And and Younis also hid he was hid he was hidden under a tractor and at some point they found him and once they found him they asked him where we were because they um they saw the guys because some of the guys uh were walking around uh Younis's office to search for you know some some weapon they can use like some sticks um anything they can use to defend themselves and I guess they saw them and they asked him where where the people from the party was and uh he he told them that he left he told them that we left they did another round around the farm and then they did they just left and they didn't come Younis which was a miracle in itself because

[00:29:23] BEN: Yeah I was gonna say there were a lot

[00:29:24] SHAHAR: Everyone that day yeah not just Jewish people Arabs, Muslims, Christians everything they saw and um and they didn't kill him and left and after a couple of minutes that we didn't hear any Arabic voices or anything we started hearing Younis looking for us, and he was looking for us and we we didn't know what I know now we didn't know that they that they left we didn't know that you know that they talked to him and we were really really scared that it might be a trick you know that he might try to lure us outside of where we were hiding and um and they're gonna kill us so when he started looking for us I we didn't say anything and it was really unfair for him. And it's really sad to admit, but we were frightened and terrified. And at some point he found us under that building and we saw his head peeking out of this gap. And he asked us, are you afraid of me? And we told him that we're sorry, but we're afraid of everything at that moment. Like, I would be afraid of the tractor. We were afraid of anything. And he told us that he's going to try to get us evacuated from here. And we asked for him to get the bags that were still in his office and hid them because we weren't willing to get out. Like we wanted to stay there under that building for as long as it takes until someone comes here and get us out. Which eventually did happen. Yeah, we spent about an hour under that building. And after an hour, two civilians from some of the places in the Gaza envelope that weren't, that the terrorists didn't get to, they came to take us out of there. They came to evacuate us in two pickup trucks. And we just ran. We ran to the pickups. And I remember these moments where, you know, we saw them and it was like, we're angels coming from the sky to save us. And I looked, you know, to my back and I saw Younis still standing there. And I ran back to him and I told him, thank you. And thank you was not enough word to say, to acknowledge what he did for us. But I told him thank you. And he just looked at me with a smile on his face and he told me, do not thank me, just get home safely. And I told him, I said, this man is amazing. Like what strength do you have to have to have like eight people here under your care and save them, face these terrorists that we went away. And after a few seconds, when we said our things, we got into the pickup truck and it was five minutes drive to a safe place. I was shocked by it because I told myself the terrorists were here and then five minutes later, we were in a safe place. Yeah.

[00:32:49] BEN: Have you seen Younis since then?

[00:32:53] SHAHAR: It took me a while. Saw him last year for the first time

[00:32:58] BEN: Wow

[00:32:58] SHAHAR: Yeah uh I really wanted to see him before but uh he works in the Gaza envelope and I couldn't bring myself to actually go there or drive there even when the guys offered me even when they wanted to go you know everyone wanted to go back to that place I I realized that it's not going to do anything good for me and I couldn't go there but a year Younis got a trophy. I don't know if a trophy is the right word, but he got a certificate from the Israeli president of his heroism that day. And it was a really beautiful ceremony in the president's house. And we were all invited for him saving eight people. And it was very emotional. We saw his family, his children, and it was a really good time. And my family came, we all brought our families and we all met together. And it was an amazing day because I saw him for the first time, but I also saw the people he loves, his children, his wife, and got to say thank you, not only to him, but to them too. Because I'm sure that he is the person he is because of the people around him.

[00:34:28] BEN: When one of the things, back to that day, one of the things that was really, or the days after, you describe a moment where you are going to a funeral. I have the excerpt from it. You're going to a funeral.

[00:34:46] [SILENT · ~32s · on-screen book excerpt, Surviving October 7 p.189 ("…on the way to bury Johnny…"), no program audio. Any question Ben asked here is not on the recording; Shahar's answer at 00:35:18 picks up mid-sentence.]

[00:35:18] SHAHAR: Go away for a long time I think years like for the first year for sure everywhere I went every room I entered every time I got into the car and you know drove and I was looking around thinking where could I hide and um and it was everywhere all the time like I think still to this day when I enter certain places I always look for the exit routes and I think it will always be there you know at the back of my mind this this feeling that I need to always have a way out of the place um but yeah and on the first week after October 7th I went to five or six funerals and I remember the phone call I got from Danny my friend that that night that we lost so many that we loved. And that's, it still goes with me every day, but especially this day that these were people that I loved and I danced with and I cried with and laughed with. And I am here three years after and they are not. And it's the feeling that I walk with every day and everything I do, I do with them.

[00:36:40] BEN: There's a moment where it seems like there's a, there's some guilt because one of your friends, you had convinced him to go to the, the Nova festival. How has that, how long has that taken to kind of be able to let go of some of that?

[00:36:59] SHAHAR: I think it will always walk with us. That feeling that it's on us. And we are not the only ones you know there were so many people in that party and so many people who you know blame themselves for what happened to their friends or they didn't done enough and we will do everything we can to honor that to honor that person and to be there for his family and for his friends and, you know, for the life he was supposed to have and remember him and cherish him. So that guilt, I can't say that it went away. It's something that we'll always carry. But we learned how to live with it. And, you know, it's just part of us now.

[00:37:52] BEN: So when you back to that day, when when when you finally saw the news coverage of what had happened at the Nova Festival, when when did you kind of square with what you had lived through and what was that moment like?

[00:38:13] SHAHAR: I thought it was crazy. I started to hear all those stories of what happened to people. And I was like, wow. Like I wasn't the only one who went through horrible things and every story that I heard I realized it they were worse from each other like there was no ending to how crazy and brutal and horrifying that was and it was really hard for me to hear like I was thinking about my experience but then I heard another story and another story. And we started going to these places. They did like safe houses for the people from the parties to go to and sit together and do workshops and stuff. And it was open from the first week, I think, after October 7th. And I went with my friends one time and I saw these people and they were all broken beyond repair really all of us uh we were so so sad like there was the silence of death in the air like we all had our demons and our experience written all over our faces and it was really hard you know to to to understand that I'm not the only one who experienced it but we all experienced it in a different way because when I was talking to Danny about it and she really didn't she didn't want to talk about what she experienced and when I talked to Ben then he all he wanted to do was speak about it and every every other person took it and his um his way of speaking about it was different so although we were at the same place each of us has a different story. And our reaction to it is different. So, yeah.

[00:40:08] BEN: What was it like seeing the reaction of the rest of the world? I mean, there was a lot of the press was, at least initially, very sympathetic. But almost immediately, there were student protests and activism. I mean, people your age. What was it like to see that, knowing what you had just gone through?

[00:40:32] SHAHAR: I think Israel was always bad at, you know, doing, explaining, changing the narrative, showing the world what happened. And I just, you know, I looked at the TikToks of people and the Free Palestine and all that. And I just told myself okay whatever like these people they don't really know what happened there they weren't there I can tell you that um a year ago when I published my book in surviving October 7 I published it uh in English on Amazon and um I had a per I had this person from the Netherlands that helped me with my Amazon campaigns and he suggested that I team up with person who's doing A+ content, whatever for Amazon. And they talked to him and I told him, OK, but just bear in mind that this is a book about October 7th. I am a Nova survivor. I was there. And if you're up to it, then great. I am happy to work with you. But if not, then that's OK. And he said, no, no, it's fine. Great, whatever. And once he I had to upload my book and send him some some information about myself and and a few hours I got an email, a really long email that my book was biased and that I'm trying to change the narrative and it's fair for the Palestinians that I present them in that light. And I was shocked at first, a bit hurt.

[00:42:14] BEN: Yeah. I mean, I've read the book. There's nothing. It is just your experience.

[00:42:19] SHAHAR: Yeah um and then I realized he didn't even read it because if he would have written it written it then then he wouldn't say that right um he he just you know assumed the worst and said whatever you know I don't even think he thinks that he just doesn't really know and it's really easy to to go after that narrative of of you know Israel is committing genocide and brother is in the army so I really do know that they're doing everything they can to avoid hurting innocent lives and and that just I'm I I feel really bad for these people because they should just learn history and then and then decide their opinion and you can still see it you know in TikToks and stuff when people are going to campuses and they read to them what are the what are the Hamas values? And before they know it, and they said, like, no, I'm not signing it. And then they realize it's what they protest for.

[00:43:25] BEN: You you came back to or came back. You came to New York to to recover from the experience. I I'm in New York. It was it was an experience here. Obviously, nothing like what you went through, but we had hostage posters up on most corners and shortly thereafter they started getting torn down and I know you know as a diaspora Jew that was very hurtful and terrifying to see did you have to run into any of that that you know you escaped from Israel and then from the from the Nova Festival from this horrible terror and then and then have to deal with this emotional terror here in New York

[00:44:15] SHAHAR: So I came to New York because I really needed a break from reality, from everything that happened. I was supposed to start university on October 8th. And all of my life went up in flames and all my plans. And I just needed some peace and quiet and to feel safe. And at first, I didn't really leave the house the first few days. But then when I did, I really kept to the Upper West Side. I did saw posters of the hostages. Luckily for me, I didn't saw any ripped or torn posters. And when there were protests, because there were always protests, we avoided them at all costs. There was one situation I remember when we went out, me, my uncle, his husband and his husband's kid who is my age. And we saw a protest. It was around the Columbus Circle. And it was on a Friday. And I remember that his son, my uncle's husband's son, he told us that they should protest because Israel is committing a genocide. And then my uncle looked at him and he told them, you don't know what you're talking about. You listen to the TikToks from the wrong side of the fence. Talking about and until you do you don't get to voice those opinions like if you want to live in my house then you have to just educate yourself first and then decide um and I remember that it's everywhere like at that point I realized it's everywhere like I know Santiago [?] from you know from when we were kids and it didn't matter to him because it's it's really hard to avoid that it's really embedded in us that we go for the, you know, the weak, the weakest part, um, without understanding what's really the cause of everything.

[00:46:33] BEN: So have you ever run into anyone in person who was of those mistaken ideas?

[00:46:41] SHAHAR: No. Um, I, I think not, not only that email I got from the one and uh from the one I wanted to work with on my book um which was very frustrating but no other than that not in person luckily for me because I don't really know what I would do in that kind of situation like I think I would you know avoid it at all costs don't even engage with a person just um avoid any conflict because yeah I don't think I I can start to explain to someone what I went through in order for him to understand.

[00:47:20] BEN: When you wrote your book, you changed the names. You changed the name of the narrator, your name in the book. What was the thinking behind that? Why did you need to do that?

[00:47:32] SHAHAR: So I started to write that book in order to understand what happened to me. I started writing it when I was in New York a few weeks after October 7th, and there was a question that haunted me and the question was how did I get to a point where I'm running for my life at the fields of the Gaza envelope and I decided I should go back in time and find the exact moment where I from there from then on anything I couldn't change anything so when I wrote it I just told myself that story of a girl backpacking through Latin America losing her friends love, her heart's getting broken, finding friends over there. And I realized that for me to write that deeply, to really share and tell the story as best as I can remember, I need to do it from a distance. And to do that from a distance, I decided to name myself Naya, which was the name My parents wanted to name me when I was a baby. And I talked to my friends and I asked them what names they want. And they did that. But I will say that there are five names in the book that stayed the same. And these are five names of people who we lost on October 7th. And it was really important for me to mention them in their true names. We talked to their families to get their approval for mentioning them in the book. And for me, it was really important to mention these people everywhere I can. So these are the only true names that are in the book. All the others are for me, for my friends, so I could write from a distance and really share as best as I can.

[00:49:38] BEN: What has allowed you to keep going? I know you've worked with a therapist since then, but how do you keep moving forward having been through this?

[00:49:51] SHAHAR: I'll take you back to New York. After a month, a month and a half when I was in New York, We got a mail from university that they're getting school back and that the school is about to start on December 17. And I decided that I didn't want to go back, that I'm staying in New York and it's fine for me. And I told that to my therapist and he told me that he asked me what my dreams were. And I told him that if he would ask me on October 6th, then I tell him that I dream of starting university and to be educated and start my degree and meet new friends and meet even, I don't know, a nice boy there in university. But if he's asking me today, after October 7th, then my dreams are being able to sleep without nightmares or eat or walk alone in the street over my shoulder every two seconds. So it's unfair question. And then he told me, you're not finished. You're not finished. It wasn't over on October 7th. Yes, you survived that day, but it didn't end there. Like surviving that day is the start of the journey, not the end of it. And now it's the hard part. October 7th was hard, but now it's going to get harder because you need to actively choose each day to live, not only survive. And you're not doing it only for yourself. And it's something I realized, took me a while, but I realized that I'm not doing it only for myself. I'm doing it for the friends that I lost. I'm doing it for the 378 people we lost at the Nova. I'm doing it for the 1,200 people we lost that day. I'm doing it for all of them because I don't have the privilege to stay at home, cuddled with my blanket and not leave my room for years. Because it was a miracle that I survived that day and I cannot waste that miracle away.

[00:52:06] BEN: You had, you had written that after the Nova festival massacre, it, you had been an avid reader beforehand, but you couldn't get through a couple of pages after that. How do you go from that to writing a book?

[00:52:23] SHAHAR: I think it was different reading than writing because the writing part, it was just, I had to get everything out. I had to tell that story to myself to understand. I told you the question that haunted me, how did I get to the point where I'm running for my life? And I had to write that. But once I came back, [?] I finished the first draft of this book in a month when I was in New York and then I came back home and I left it on my computer and haven't touched it for almost a year. And during that year, I did everything I could to survive and I started university and to just, you know, go day by day and do what I promised myself I would and after a while I realized that I miss reading and I allowed myself the pleasure of reading and at first it was it was hard getting into a book but then it just came like like riding a bike you know I just found one that I liked and and read it and then another one and And it was like, it was amazing, but it took me a while because I needed the mental capacity to be able to just sit on the couch and enjoy a good book. And it took me a very long time to get to that point.

[00:53:47] BEN: As Jews around the world in the diaspora and in Israel, it's been a tough three years, I mean, especially for you. Is what could you give Jews around the world in terms of from your experience, your, how do you tell them, tell us to keep, keep going? How do you keep going? And what can you give?

[00:54:12] SHAHAR: So I will tell you one thing that I got. I got a message from one of the guys, a brother that were with me when we ran the day after October 7th. And in his message, he sent me, Shahar, you fought yesterday and you won. Keep winning. So if there is one thing I want to tell every Jew around the world, in every hardship, every obstacle, every challenge you face in life, that if you have to, then fight. Because we know how to fight, unfortunately. We know how to fight. But more importantly, win. Just keep winning in whatever you do, whatever you choose, whatever obstacle or challenge you face, keep winning.

[00:55:05] BEN: Three years on, what do you want people to remember about Nova, about that day? Not the attack itself necessarily, but about the people who were there?

[00:55:18] SHAHAR: I think as long as time pass, we forget the people we remember the event. And there were real people there, people with dreams and love and hopes and dreams. And I think it's important for us each day, but especially today, that remember them and honor them there were children you know 18 20 19 20 22 year old kids going to a party to celebrate and I think we don't we need to we need to remember that that we have that privilege of dancing and laughing and having dreams and having hopes and being able to to to act on them to to to make them come true so I want everyone to just remember the people and remember that we are here and we we should act on it we should act on our dreams on our on our aspirations on everything like do what what you dream of and and never forget that there are people who didn't get that chance so we should do everything we want and carry that in our hearts so this is what I want people to remember the people

[00:56:38] BEN: The text you got the day after said keep winning um three years later is is this what winning looks like is what you just described

[00:56:48] SHAHAR: Yeah I think winning is is very it is it's change it has changed for me during the last three years at first winning was sleeping through the night and then winning was not failing my my semester exam and then winning became um publishing my book in Hebrew and then winning became publishing it in English and then winning became something more um so in each period of that recovery the healing journey I'm still going through winning looks different and any any kind of winning is is good to that point you know in my healing journey so I learned to never judge myself of how my winning look like and that's okay that at some point winning is just getting out of bed in the morning and now winning is getting a promotion at my job like winning looks different for everyone and and I learned to never judge myself for it

[00:58:01] BEN: Shahar Horovitz thank you so much for joining us today

[00:58:04] SHAHAR: Thank you so much for listening.

[00:58:08] BEN: Her book is Surviving October 7th, and it's out now on Amazon. And in Hebrew, it's We Were the Sun. The links will be in the description. Thank you, everyone, for spending this hour with us today. If this was worth your time, please hit the subscribe button on YouTube while we're still live or on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It does help new people find the show. And if you have 30 seconds, please leave us a review. Follow HonestReporting on X, Instagram, Shahar's book anywhere you get books on Amazon. And I am Ben Chertoff, and this has been The Honest Take, and we will see you next time.

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